I would like to respnd to numerous letters in the Tivy-Side regarding delays to the proposed Bathhouse development.
Firstly, do we allow another out of town development site to further bring the town's diminishing trade to a standstill? It is true that Cardigan needs to bring itself up-to-date but surely we can use existing sites that are earmarked for development.
Regarding the hospital, there have been several sites that are far more adequate or fit for purpose, even the existing site could be upgraded. It could be very difficult to obtain any necessary planning permissions to re-develop the site for any other purpose as it falls within the Environment Agency's TAN 15 or C2 area of major flood risk.
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Secondly, the two entrances to the proposed site both have their drawbacks. If the entrance is allowed in Gwbert Road, then surely any delivery lorries or visitors coming down from the north of the county will use the new proposed roundabout leading from Aberystwyth Road, North Road and Gwbert Road entrance.
This area of Cardigan is very busy already, not only during school opening and closing times but all day. Surely this development will only add to the congestion. The other entrance, although an upgrade of the town's existing roads is proposed, the town centre would be at a total standstill. Cardigan cannot be brought to this level of chaos for just another out of town development.
Thirdly, the company in charge of the traffic survey and management will produce a report to say that the existing traffic using the outskirt roads of Cardigan and the town centre roads is not as heavy as local people say. I beg to differ! This survey has been carried out in the winter months, of course traffic will be reduced. A true reflection or conclusion can only be produced during summer months when the traffic is at its busiest. I live in North Road. When a rugby match is being played along with a football match and the bowling club is busy as it often is, there is traffic congestion and nowhere to park.
The whole of Park Place, Greenland Meadows, and parts of Aberystwyth Road are overflowing with parked cars. Even on the day of rest Aberystwyth Road and Greenland Meadows are congested due to attendances at the Catholic Church. Placing single or double yellow lines in these areas will only push the traffic further down Gwbert Road.
Lastly, I am fed up of people who don't live in Cardigan or its immediate surrounding areas adding their own unfounded opinions of their support for this scheme. Come and live on our side of the fence, then you will see the true problems at the present moment let alone if this development is allowed to be completed. Thank you TI Davies, please continue to block this development!
Posted by: Freight, Aberteifi on 12:07am Sun 27 Apr 08
Nicholas Bolton, letters 22 April 2008, seems to have got hold of the wrong end of a couple of sticks.
In his 3rd paragraph, he recognizes, quite correctly, that the existing hospital site lies within the C2 area (undefended flood plain) as defined in TAN 15, the Welsh Assembly Government’s Technical Advice Note on Development and Flood Risk. He notes correctly that this means that it would be difficult to redevelop the site, which is true. However, he then goes on to imply that the hospital could be re-developed on the site. WRONG! TAN15 makes it quite clear that hospitals belong to the emergency services category of development and, as such, are not to be located in C2 areas. Indeed, TAN15 affords emergency services (including hospitals) the highest level of flood protection possible.
He goes on to assert that there are several other sites suitable for the hospital. The new hospital will not, of course, just be a hospital, it will include the Heath Centre too. The Bath House site was chosen as the preferred site as it is the site nearest to the centre of the town on the town side of the bypass. There is no appetite for having people cross the bypass on foot, or walk up beyond Tesco (many people do access the Health Centre & Hospital on foot). At the time that the site was chosen, there were no other plans developed for the Bath House site. Other sites were considered and, though less suitable (far out of town, wrong side of bypass etc), were, at that stage, possible. However, when Ceredigion County Council resolved to use Policies in the Unitary Development Plan for planning purposes, on 18 January 2007, all possible sites other than the Bath House fell outside the settlement boundary for Cardigan. The consequences, in planning law, are that there would be a presumption against granting consent for any of these other sites. Hence, at present, the only site available is the Bath House.
Nicholas Bolton, letters 22 April 2008, seems to have got hold of the wrong end of a couple of sticks.
In his 3rd paragraph, he recognizes, quite correctly, that the existing hospital site lies within the C2 area (undefended flood plain) as defined in TAN 15, the Welsh Assembly Government’s Technical Advice Note on Development and Flood Risk. He notes correctly that this means that it would be difficult to redevelop the site, which is true. However, he then goes on to imply that the hospital could be re-developed on the site. WRONG! TAN15 makes it quite clear that hospitals belong to the emergency services category of development and, as such, are not to be located in C2 areas. Indeed, TAN15 affords emergency services (including hospitals) the highest level of flood protection possible.
He goes on to assert that there are several other sites suitable for the hospital. The new hospital will not, of course, just be a hospital, it will include the Heath Centre too. The Bath House site was chosen as the preferred site as it is the site nearest to the centre of the town on the town side of the bypass. There is no appetite for having people cross the bypass on foot, or walk up beyond Tesco (many people do access the Health Centre & Hospital on foot). At the time that the site was chosen, there were no other plans developed for the Bath House site. Other sites were considered and, though less suitable (far out of town, wrong side of bypass etc), were, at that stage, possible. However, when Ceredigion County Council resolved to use Policies in the Unitary Development Plan for planning purposes, on 18 January 2007, all possible sites other than the Bath House fell outside the settlement boundary for Cardigan. The consequences, in planning law, are that there would be a presumption against granting consent for any of these other sites. Hence, at present, the only site available is the Bath House.
Posted by: Nicholas Bolton, Cardigan on 11:01am Tue 29 Apr 08
Yes this is true but we have an existing hospital site, I was merely saying that the existing hospital facilities could be upgraded to create a better environment for those receiving care. I am sure that the Bathouse site although not in the Tan 15/C2 flood area recently had a problem with land drainage or surface flooding. Great place to biuld a hospital and health centre? We already have a health centre that is providing an excellent standard of care, and also Ashley Surgery. Both of these are in the town centre, do you expect the elderly people of Cardigan to walk "out of town." It also is amazing that the developers have said that with some minor alterations to the existing road system of Cardigan. It can cope with this development, but one must ask themselves "when was this traffic survey carried out?" The answer to this is in the winter months!!!! A true reflection NO NO NO NO More of the same from the developers apparently they are doing this for the good of Carigan and its people, I beg to differ how about we are doing this to line the company pockets or that of their shareholders. Dont forget that a sum of £50,000 was going to be donated to the swimming pool fund if this development was given planning, in my mind this only amounts to legalised blackmail. I BEG THE PEOPLE OF CARDIGAN TO BE OUT SPOKEN AND SEND A MESSAGE TO DEVELOPERS LIKE THIS, IN THAT THEY CAN'T HOLD TOWNS LIKE CARDIGAN TO RANSOM JUST FOR THEIR OWN PROFITS.
Yes this is true but we have an existing hospital site, I was merely saying that the existing hospital facilities could be upgraded to create a better environment for those receiving care. I am sure that the Bathouse site although not in the Tan 15/C2 flood area recently had a problem with land drainage or surface flooding. Great place to biuld a hospital and health centre? We already have a health centre that is providing an excellent standard of care, and also Ashley Surgery. Both of these are in the town centre, do you expect the elderly people of Cardigan to walk "out of town." It also is amazing that the developers have said that with some minor alterations to the existing road system of Cardigan. It can cope with this development, but one must ask themselves "when was this traffic survey carried out?" The answer to this is in the winter months!!!! A true reflection NO NO NO NO More of the same from the developers apparently they are doing this for the good of Carigan and its people, I beg to differ how about we are doing this to line the company pockets or that of their shareholders. Dont forget that a sum of £50,000 was going to be donated to the swimming pool fund if this development was given planning, in my mind this only amounts to legalised blackmail. I BEG THE PEOPLE OF CARDIGAN TO BE OUT SPOKEN AND SEND A MESSAGE TO DEVELOPERS LIKE THIS, IN THAT THEY CAN'T HOLD TOWNS LIKE CARDIGAN TO RANSOM JUST FOR THEIR OWN PROFITS.
Posted by: Freight, Aberteifi on 6:29pm Tue 29 Apr 08
I’m afraid that some of the existing facilities at Cardigan Hospital are barely appropriate to 19 century medicine, let alone the 21 century. The Health Centre is a poor quality building of the 1970s that is now at the end of its working life. It is too small for the current GP practice (has the portacabin escaped notice) and it is just not possible for the doctors to develop the more specialist services that are now needed, within the space available. The bringing together of the hospital and Health Centre on the same site will open the door to the superior services that are required by Welsh Assembly Government policy. However, to do this properly, 4.5 hectares are required. The current hospital site is just not big enough. The Bath House site is the only site available for development of this size (this is the result of a decision of Ceredigion County Council, not the Health Authorities). It is also relatively near to the Centre of the Town; in fact the nearest of all the sites that were considered; in that sense, it is the best location. The location for the hospital/health centre at Bath House is well above the River Mwldan and its flood plain – which is quite narrow, because of the rising contour lines.
I realise that the rest of the Bath House development is causing major concern to the residents of Cardigan. I can only say that it is a great pity that those concerns were not articulated during the Unitary Development Plan Process, when there were three public consultations and a public inquiry before Welsh Assembly Government Planning Inspectors, over a 6 year period. Nobody can claim ignorance of this process, as all households had newsletters, there were articles in the local press and all the papers were available in the public library and on the Internet.
Having said that, I would appeal to the people of Cardigan not to chuck the baby out with the bathwater, by picking on the hospital/health centre development. These facilities are much needed. Their provision has never been in greater danger, with responsibility for them having passed to the new three counties Hywel Dda NHS Trust. The Bath House is the only site available for them. If the hospital/health centre plan doesn’t go ahead, then future generations of the pregnant, sick and elderly will be trekking to Carmarthen for a lot of the facilities that they can, for now, obtain in Cardigan, and Cardigan will have only itself to blame.
I’m afraid that some of the existing facilities at Cardigan Hospital are barely appropriate to 19 century medicine, let alone the 21 century. The Health Centre is a poor quality building of the 1970s that is now at the end of its working life. It is too small for the current GP practice (has the portacabin escaped notice) and it is just not possible for the doctors to develop the more specialist services that are now needed, within the space available. The bringing together of the hospital and Health Centre on the same site will open the door to the superior services that are required by Welsh Assembly Government policy. However, to do this properly, 4.5 hectares are required. The current hospital site is just not big enough. The Bath House site is the only site available for development of this size (this is the result of a decision of Ceredigion County Council, not the Health Authorities). It is also relatively near to the Centre of the Town; in fact the nearest of all the sites that were considered; in that sense, it is the best location. The location for the hospital/health centre at Bath House is well above the River Mwldan and its flood plain – which is quite narrow, because of the rising contour lines.
I realise that the rest of the Bath House development is causing major concern to the residents of Cardigan. I can only say that it is a great pity that those concerns were not articulated during the Unitary Development Plan Process, when there were three public consultations and a public inquiry before Welsh Assembly Government Planning Inspectors, over a 6 year period. Nobody can claim ignorance of this process, as all households had newsletters, there were articles in the local press and all the papers were available in the public library and on the Internet.
Having said that, I would appeal to the people of Cardigan not to chuck the baby out with the bathwater, by picking on the hospital/health centre development. These facilities are much needed. Their provision has never been in greater danger, with responsibility for them having passed to the new three counties Hywel Dda NHS Trust. The Bath House is the only site available for them. If the hospital/health centre plan doesn’t go ahead, then future generations of the pregnant, sick and elderly will be trekking to Carmarthen for a lot of the facilities that they can, for now, obtain in Cardigan, and Cardigan will have only itself to blame.
Posted by: Nicholas Bolton, Cardigan on 11:32am Fri 2 May 08
Sometimes we want the samething, but go a different way to achieve it. It is fair to say that we do need additional, new and upgraded health care facilities in Cardigan that I am not against. But does one honestly think that the developers for the Bathouse site will accept just the new hospital and health centre facilities on the site? I'm afraid that answer would be NO, as they would not make the profits that they are banking on with a new supermarket war in Cardigan. We currently have 3 giant supermarket companies trading in Cradigan, do we think there is room for another??? The Planning Act was amended to stop out of town developments, this has fail the small shop owners and independent traders of Cardigan and accross the country. With interest I have read that The Office of Fair Trading is recommending that Local Planning Authorities can or should be able to turn down supermarket developments, thus protecting smaller shops and high streets accross the Country. Also that the LPA should consult the OFT if the supermarket development is more than 1,000 sq m of net sales floor space, should be given the go-ahead in the first place. The assessment test will be carried out based on the number of, competing retail outlets within a ten-minute drive of the proposed location. A new stronger impact test will be carried out during the planning process, which is currently failing high sreet shops and small independent shop keepers through its CRUDE pass or fail criteria. Perhaps Cardigan and its high street is too late for this.. "What a shame."
Sometimes we want the samething, but go a different way to achieve it. It is fair to say that we do need additional, new and upgraded health care facilities in Cardigan that I am not against. But does one honestly think that the developers for the Bathouse site will accept just the new hospital and health centre facilities on the site? I'm afraid that answer would be NO, as they would not make the profits that they are banking on with a new supermarket war in Cardigan. We currently have 3 giant supermarket companies trading in Cradigan, do we think there is room for another??? The Planning Act was amended to stop out of town developments, this has fail the small shop owners and independent traders of Cardigan and accross the country. With interest I have read that The Office of Fair Trading is recommending that Local Planning Authorities can or should be able to turn down supermarket developments, thus protecting smaller shops and high streets accross the Country. Also that the LPA should consult the OFT if the supermarket development is more than 1,000 sq m of net sales floor space, should be given the go-ahead in the first place. The assessment test will be carried out based on the number of, competing retail outlets within a ten-minute drive of the proposed location. A new stronger impact test will be carried out during the planning process, which is currently failing high sreet shops and small independent shop keepers through its CRUDE pass or fail criteria. Perhaps Cardigan and its high street is too late for this.. "What a shame."
Posted by: Freight, Aberteifi on 12:25pm Sat 3 May 08
I’m not sure what Nicholas Bolton’s solution to this problem would be. Unless a package of land were to be available that was just the right size for the new hospital/health centre, which is not the case, the issue of what the land owner wanted to do with the rest of the land would always be an issue outside the Health Trust’s control.
Given that the allocation of the Bath House site for mixed and community development, and the principle of access via the Gwbert Road, was fully consulted and subject to public inquiry, over some 5 or six years, during the Unitary Development Plan process, it is difficult to see that the whole plan won’t be delivered eventually. If the County Council doesn’t take the action necessary to open up the Gwbert Road access (ie compulsory purchase), should that prove to be key to the whole development, then I’m quite sure that the developers would go to judicial review. Given that due process has been followed, it is certain that they would win, but the whole process would take a very considerable period of time, unless the landowner withdrew any objection. The consequences would be a large legal bill for Ceredigion council tax payers and a high degree of likelihood that the Hospital Trust will have closed the existing hospital, on patient safety grounds, and either cancelled the new hospital/health centre project on the grounds that it could not be delivered, or located the hospital with a GP practice in a neighbouring town (eg Crymych, Newcastle Emlyn or Lampeter). The GPs would have made their own separate arrangements, and the coalition of health, social services and the voluntary sector needed to deliver any new combined hospital/health centre would be lost for good. Thus Cardigan would end up with the commercial development, but not the hospital/health centre development. A real case of cutting off the nose to spite the face.
I’m not sure what Nicholas Bolton’s solution to this problem would be. Unless a package of land were to be available that was just the right size for the new hospital/health centre, which is not the case, the issue of what the land owner wanted to do with the rest of the land would always be an issue outside the Health Trust’s control.
Given that the allocation of the Bath House site for mixed and community development, and the principle of access via the Gwbert Road, was fully consulted and subject to public inquiry, over some 5 or six years, during the Unitary Development Plan process, it is difficult to see that the whole plan won’t be delivered eventually. If the County Council doesn’t take the action necessary to open up the Gwbert Road access (ie compulsory purchase), should that prove to be key to the whole development, then I’m quite sure that the developers would go to judicial review. Given that due process has been followed, it is certain that they would win, but the whole process would take a very considerable period of time, unless the landowner withdrew any objection. The consequences would be a large legal bill for Ceredigion council tax payers and a high degree of likelihood that the Hospital Trust will have closed the existing hospital, on patient safety grounds, and either cancelled the new hospital/health centre project on the grounds that it could not be delivered, or located the hospital with a GP practice in a neighbouring town (eg Crymych, Newcastle Emlyn or Lampeter). The GPs would have made their own separate arrangements, and the coalition of health, social services and the voluntary sector needed to deliver any new combined hospital/health centre would be lost for good. Thus Cardigan would end up with the commercial development, but not the hospital/health centre development. A real case of cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Posted by: Cassandra, Cardigan on 4:58pm Wed 14 May 08
OK! The present hospital site is on an undefended flood plain. The Bath House site isn't. The Bath House site got flooded, and the hospital site didn't.
The hospital needs to be near the centre of the town so people don't have to cross the dual carriageway, but the police station doesn't.
Is it me? Because I don't get it!
OK! The present hospital site is on an undefended flood plain. The Bath House site isn't. The Bath House site got flooded, and the hospital site didn't.
The hospital needs to be near the centre of the town so people don't have to cross the dual carriageway, but the police station doesn't.
Posted by: Freight, Aberteifi on 9:50pm Wed 14 May 08
As has been pointed out many times before, the contours at the Bath House site rise rapidly, and the Mwldan flood plain is correspondingly narrow (check on the Environment Agency Wales website flooding pages, if you don’t believe me). The site earmarked for the hospital is well above the flood plain, so flooding isn’t an issue. On the other hand, the grounds of the present hospital were flooded on the morning of Monday 7 April this year, when the high spring tide coincided with a storm surge. Before anyone points it out, the hospital itself wasn’t flooded. However, if a new hospital were to be provided on the current site (which is not practicable anyway, because the site isn’t big enough), then the new building would have to be constructed in the hospital grounds (ie the area which partially flooded on 7 April), as the present building would have to be kept in use (for continuity of services) until the new one were commissioned.
As has been pointed out many times before, the contours at the Bath House site rise rapidly, and the Mwldan flood plain is correspondingly narrow (check on the Environment Agency Wales website flooding pages, if you don’t believe me). The site earmarked for the hospital is well above the flood plain, so flooding isn’t an issue. On the other hand, the grounds of the present hospital were flooded on the morning of Monday 7 April this year, when the high spring tide coincided with a storm surge. Before anyone points it out, the hospital itself wasn’t flooded. However, if a new hospital were to be provided on the current site (which is not practicable anyway, because the site isn’t big enough), then the new building would have to be constructed in the hospital grounds (ie the area which partially flooded on 7 April), as the present building would have to be kept in use (for continuity of services) until the new one were commissioned.
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