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How about we say that this development will not work at all? We must surely ensure that the existing proposed schemes in Cardigan town centre, are given prior approval or consideration. But we must ensure that the health care facilities are favoured apon, and find a combined site for the health care sector as well as the emergencey services. After all I would think that the people who have been affected by large outer town development schemes, such as the bathouse development were given the same blog as we of Cardigan are being given. I urge people who are for this scheme to talk to the owners of small shops in Llanelli, the Parc Trostre and Pemberton developments have had a negitive affect on the town centre.

I agree. This development can only be good for the town and the surrounding area. If I have to go to another town for one item or shop. I will do my whole shop there...like many others. Let's make our town flourish, and boost our local economy and job prospects!

Well done Scott Gibbs for redressing the balance. This debate has been far too one sided so far to the detriment of the Bathhouse scheme. Scott has highlighted one of the most common misconceptions regarding the scheme. Those who have been quoted recently claiming that Bathhouse will kill off the town centre have a fundamental misunderstanding of urban economics. He is also right to send a plea to the silent majority as it seems to be those who object strongest that shout the loudest which biases the argument in their favour. Come on Cardigan - let's save the Bathhouse scheme before it's too late.

Let’s get one thing straight. The Bath House development is NOT out of town. It is about as “in town” as you can get, without redeveloping the historic centre of Cardigan. It is illuminating to recall that many of those objecting to the Bath House development supported the hideous development proposed for the Woolworths/Pwll Hai site. That development really would have knocked the town for six, and destroyed its historical and architectural integrity, by dropping a 1960s style wind tunnel of a development into the heart of the town, to become a litter strewn graffiti daubed eyesore. The Bath House is a good scheme. It’s the best that we’re likely to get. It will regenerate the town, without unsympathetic redevelopment of the most attractive part. It will provide good shopping and first class 21 century health facilities (new home for the Health Centre co-located with an improved hospital facility) within easy pedestrian reach of the centre of town and most of Cardigan’s residential areas. If T I Davies would sell his ransom strip of land, and allow an improved circulation of traffic, it would be even better. So let’s get behind the project, see off all the doom mongers, with their vested interests, and launch Cardigan into a prosperous and successful new era.

Yanto Surrey? Y Gweledydd Aberteifi? Y Gwirionedd Aberteifi? Who are you? Why hide behind ffugenw? Tivyside - what happened to names and addresses?

Names and addresses? This is not a letters page. More like a discussion forum.

It would seem to me that all the people objecting to the Bathhouse development have forgotten how they reacted to the announcement that the Dewhirst factory was closing and Aberporth was shedding jobs at the same time all anyone wanted then was development to give people jobs and keep the Young people of Cardigan in work without them having to move away to do so. Now we have the chance of the development lets get on with it, time to move on, time to think about the young population of Cardigan not those of us who are well down the road in their working life, time to give Cardigan a new lease of life. The people with vested interests have held the town back for to long.

Cardigan is in an ideal position to service shoppers from a radius of twenty plus miles. If this scheme does not go ahead here, it will go elsewhere and Cardigan will become a backwater, if that happens it will never recover.

If this development is allowed then those for it will see the mistakes that they will make, do we not learn from previous scemes like this in other areas of the country. Maybe the proposed scheme in Pwllhai was too futuristic in design, but it would allow the centre of Cardigan to be developed. So how can we not call the Bathouse development "out of town?" It is obviously situated outside the old Cardigan town walls, so lets think again. I do not appreciate being refered to as a " doom monger " and I do not have any vested interest, but I surely want to see that Cardigan is not affected by the greed of others. Lets develop the Centre of Cardigan and have a decent free park and ride facility, and look to find another site for the health care and emergency services. Cardigan has a future we just need to develop responsibily, and not let fat cats of business profit from Cardigan and its people. It is clear to see that Carmarthen is being developed to rival Swansea, if cardigan heads for the same retail deveopment war when will it stop?

[bold]PLEASE LET BATHHOUSE GO AHEAD!!!!!!![/bold] Cardigan is already a ghost town. Tesco need some competition, everyone I know hates shopping in Tesco, so why give them the monopoly of the area. I ask people against Bath House where do you shop and get fuel?????? I bet the majority of you go to Tesco. Cardigan town centre is no good for people to do there weekly shopping and most people go to Tesco or travel to Carmarthen or Haverfordwest anyway, So why not bring them back to town. [bold]MOST PEOPLE I KNOW WANT BATH HOUST TO GO AHEAD.[/bold]

The politicians at the local level have given a resounding "NO" to the Bathhouse scheme - a "NO" to much needed jobs in an employment backwater; a "NO" to a new hospital; a "NO" to a new health centre and social housing i.e. integrated health facility on one site in the centre of town; and most importantly a "NO" to the opportunity to regenerate a town in desperate need of a £50million investment. It looks as if they may well succeed in their objection to Bathhouse, but will this be in the best interests of future generations in Cardigan?

As Mr Gibbs has pointed out this scheme WILL be lost if the silent majority don't act now. Someone needs to now have the courage to speak out publicly and start a campaign to save the scheme, there was an email address on the back of the Bath House brochure - info@libertyplc.co.u k - anyone who isn't afraid to speak out as being for the scheme should get in touch with them. Do it now or we really do face losing because of the vociferous few!

But isn't a sad situation that there has been such hostility from a small number of people to Bathhouse, that those in favour of the scheme are afraid to speak out.

What hostility????? Are you trying to suggest that people who are in favour for the scheme are getting hurt by those apposed????? Liberty PLC will not say that there is anything wrong with the scheme, or that the traffic survey was carried out in the winter months on their website or glossy blog. In fact Liberty PLC bought the site were cams was situated taking away the petrol competition, they also own the present Tesco site. Tesco being the market leader in supermarket terms, do you honestly think that they will allow another supermaket in town to compete against them. If they get the Bathouse site, they will further increase their market share. It will become a Tesco Extra why then would you need to come to the centre of town for your shopping? We need to encourage more retail sector shops, and not another supermarket. I speak for myself but I am not against more housing, health care facilities, emergency services facilities but honestly do we need another supermarket war????? If Yanto was to listen to what was being said, you would find that local councilors are not against the new hospital or housing. Liberty PLC thought that T I Davies would be a pushover, how wrong they were? T I even said that if the development just included the new hospital, healthcare facilities, and the housing he then would not appose the developers to buy the required land for the 2nd entrance. Then Liberty PLC tried to get the 2nd entrance through the secondary school land adjoining Gwbert Road, again they thought that the board of govenors would bowl over for them. Again they were wrong!!! And lets not forget the £50,000 Liberty were going to pay for the Swimming pool fund again does this amount to legalised blackmail? Then we all had the glossy blog in the Tivyside together with a new planning application with a single entrance, how ridiculous. Cardigan will become the Mecca for traffic jambs, shall we just provisionally call Cardigan the new "M25" I will not be affected as Gwbert road will not have the 2nd entrance, but I do feel sorry for the residents living in the Williams Street and Feidrfair areas. [bold]Lets all work together to get the new housing, healthcare facilities, new hospital without the need for an additional supermarket!!!!!!

The disinformation and misinformation surrounding the Bath House development is shocking. I'm sure most realise that the main protagonists against the project live on Gwbert Road; it's a case of "not in my back yard, pal!". True, other sites may pose interesting questions as to suitabilty, but few, if any, offer the real convenience of having a modern facilty so near not only the town centre, but most residential areas too. Of course, those who own or run shops in Cardigan need to look at the future and make a decision on how to benefit from the proposed changes. We are, after all, talking about "change" and people are generally suspicious of change and don't like it. Change Management is clearly a topic that many have failed to grasp hence the stalemate currently being experienced. The development will be good for Cardigan - this can't really be argued against but those concerned about how the small shop will cope should look no further than Aberaeron; it seems to me that irrespective of what time of year you pass through Aberaeron, the shops are always bustling. Cardigan should recognise it's potential to be a wonderful base for those wishing to explore the beautiful surrounding countryside and coastline. Develop some nice hotels, dredge the river (oh for pity sake - dredge the river - this has been going on since I was a small boy and that was many years ago. Sort the pubs out and make them family friendly (what has happened to The Lamb? A once great pub - now a shameful dump). It's beyond belief that The Black Lion has closed! Get on with the Bath House development and breath some new life into Cardigan.

And it was mentioned that the hostility was from those who are against this scheme??? Look at the last comment!!! I dont live in Gwbert road, so its not in my back yard its just my opinion. Aberaeron is surviving without the out of town development, SO WHY CANT CARDIGAN.... But your right we have so much too offer. Yes I agree dredge the river make it more inviting to navigate, make the castle an attraction not the eye sore it will be for years. At the end of the day this will go on for years we need it we dont etc. The decision will be out of the hands of Cardigan Residents, it will be left to those on the planning comittee in Aberaeron and the clever planning advisors that are employed by Liberty PLC. The bathouse scheme could be great for Cardigan but not with a supermarket in the proposal.

Bathhouse and "Tessa Cohen" Junction: At Oldbury West Mids a big new Sainsbury's was planned. I worked for the bus company and when negotiations about the plans for the bus station weere discussed,Sainsbury' s threatened to pull out if a footpath to Oldbury High Street was provided they didn't want any competition! Also, at the A487/Aberystwyth Rd junction traffic lights would solve everything - pedestrians crossing, boy racers treating the a roundabout as a racing chicane, and stopping traffic rather than just slowing it a little.

I agree with Nicholas Bolton - the Bath House scheme will work for Cardigan but it doesn't need a supermarket. Indeed, placing a supermarket in an area of poor access is disasterous (even the Tesco's entrance can test the patience of a Saint and that, by comparison, has good access). Develop Bath House with a medical facility and convert the rest into a proper, well supported farmer's market (use the town market for something else to do with the community - I would suggest a museum). The shops in Cardigan High Street should consist of butchers, fish mongers, bakers, newsagents, book shops, clothes shops (for all ages), small bistros, restaurants, family oriented pubs. When you walk into a shop in the High Street, you should feel welcomed and the staff should chat and offer assistance if you need it. You should be known and your needs should be taken care of - in other words, a town shop should offer exactly what supermarkets can't - local knowledge, a warm welcome and a familiar face. A town centre is a community and it needs nuturing. If Cardigan needs another supermarket (which it probably doesn't) then build it somewhere along Station Road and provide a free shuttle bus to residential areas). In fact, why bother with an awful supermarket in the first place? A farmer's market can be competitive and organic - a much better option.

So Nicholas, is it your opinion that development does have its merits as far as the hospital is concerned? Is this true of most people who are objecting to the scheme - Hospital yes, but retail no! If this is true, it makes a mockery of the arguments of members of the town council who object to ANY development on the Bathhouse site. The Mayor himself is quoted as saying it would be "sheer madness". And maybe someone can jot my memory here - did someone on the town council recently refer to Bathhouse as "that dump"?

Actually, it was the Mayor, Cllr Melfydd George, who described the Bath House site as a ‘dump’ in the context of a location for the hospital. Cardigan Town Council did not object to the hospital/health centre aspects of the Bath House development, the last time that the planning application was considered (with the access onto the Gwbert Road), and there is a letter to this effect, signed by the then Mayor, Cllr Wynne Evans, on the Planning File in the County Council Offices in Aberaeron. However, Cllrs Adams Lewis and Melfydd George have never accepted the democratic decision of Cardigan Town Council on this issue on that occasion. Nicholas Bolton has a rather strange idea of what constitutes ‘out of town’. If everything outside the Old Cardigan town walls is out of town, then the shopkeepers of Pendre and Priory Street are in for a surprise, as they are all out of town stores too! He may not live on the Gwbert Road, but he does live on North Road, almost opposite its junction with Gwbert Road. He seems to think that greed is the driving force behind the Bath House development, but for some reason beyond me, not the currently moribund Woolworths/Pwll Hai development. I suspect that the desire to turn a good profit is what is behind both schemes, and what’s wrong with that? It’s made the world go round since time immemorial! I repeat, the Bath House scheme will be far less destructive to the fabric of Cardigan Town than ever the Woolworths/Pwll Hai scheme would have been. Indeed, were this scheme to be realized, think of the volume of traffic and deliveries that would then be concentrated right in the centre of the town. The Bath House scheme will be a first rate foundation for the regeneration of the Cardigan. We should seize it with both hands and welcome it.

I agree that Cardigan needs to diversify and to bring itself into the current markets for those wanting to shop in this modern day market, but do we let this development go ahead and pay the price by having another supermaket out of the town centre? In pricipal the proposed scheme will be good for Cardigan and its people, but the need for another supermarket or supermarket war will have a detrimental affect on the town centre. ( AS LLANELLI HAS ) Lets have the new the hospital, health care facilities, housing and lets not have the supermarket..... A suitable access road, but not the single or previous proposed access roads. And lets not forget the traffic survey that was carried out in the winter months, it is now up to the chamber of trade to do their own traffic survey, lets see what this brings up? Maybe now is the time to look further to other sites with better access and road links. After all as pointed out I live in North Road so why do I have continue to comment when this development will not affect me as it will others???? It's because I care about Cardigan!!!!! Modus is very unlikely to develop the Pwllhai scheme at present, so what do we do with the unsightly buildings that still remain?? This further makes Cardigan look like it needs more European money spent on it, when in fact Cardigan has had millions pump in to it over the years. This money is due to stop shortly, and the need for private investment within the town centre will be needed more that ever. Some of the present councillors want Cardigan to remain the sleepy tourist town that it has been for many years, I dont but we need to react responsibily to the mordern day needs of shoppers to remain shopping in Cardigan itself. Finding a happy medium will be the solution, but I dont think that this should be left in the hands of big developers but the people of Cardigan.......

I make two points only. 1) The Bath House site is not out of town. It is close to the centre of town as it’s possible to get without being in the centre of town. It nestles in the right angle formed by Pendre/North Road and Gwbert Road. It is within easy walking distance of the centre of town, and of all the main residential areas of Cardigan. 2) Whether relating to planning issues, or health and social care aspects, all the key decisions that have led to the present Bath House scheme, even including the denial of access via the Gwbert Road, have been made by Cardigan people, or at meetings where a very significant proportion, if not a majority, of the participants have been elected representatives of Cardigan, or adjacent areas, or representatives of official bodies who happen to live in Cardigan. In that sense, the Bath House proposals are very much a Cardigan production. The developers are merely following a path laid down from within Cardigan itself. They are not imposing their own agenda upon Cardigan.

The only addtional comment I shall make is a saying that I believe in "We shall see what we shall see"

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